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Noble Vs Tudei Kava - Megathread

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
@Kavasseur - The strong anti-two day contingent is not just here, this is the view held by virtually all involved in the industry - including the nations you describe. Our solution to the problem is to solve it, yours seems to be ignore it. Why?
My feeling is that there is a discourse that was created when Europe began banning Kava products. Pacific Island nations didn't want to lose an overseas market, so they created a safety standards protocol and a narrative anchored in tradition to support it. For a long time, the narrative was actually the opposite, that PI nations shouldn't export Nobel!

I think you are assuming a problem rather than identifying a problem. Your testing system will always be arbitrary, and the biggest impact it might ever have is to raise the eyebrows of the FDA.
 

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Hey guys, lets pull it in here. Remember we all love kava. We can all have our opinions heard, and we can all do that respectively. I know this topic gets heated, and even if we don't come to a conclusion, we can still do this with class and respect.
Sounds like a good idea. Bula!
 

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
And the fact of the matter is that people are going to buy whatever Kava is available. You can be sure that most people off this board, at Kava bars across the country, don't care about these Kava tests

No you will buy what ever kava is available..
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
In regards to the FDA I figure I'd weigh in. It seems to me that regardless of what's done here online, (not to say that we don't have an impact, because I'm sure we do) the kava bars will be garnering much more attention from state and local officials. Not a fact, but just what it seems will happen in the future. Kava is getting pretty darn popular. Kava's growing popularity will at some point cause the attention we fear. Whether this will be a completely damning issue, however, is yet to be seen.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
Surely if we as consumers demand noble only and the testing highlights even reasonably well kavas that may not be completely noble then vendors and growers eventually have to realise that in order to have a thriving business they must only grow noble kavas for sale. It seems there are some people who don't care what kava they drink but I get the sense that a lot more people only want to drink noble kava based on the available evidence so far (whether good or bad evidence). If this continues then eventually we have to come to a situation where more noble kava is available for sale and less products are adulterated. The other side of this is that if a vendor wants to offer tudei kava labelled as such then that's fine too. In the long run consumer demand for noble only combined with adequate testing should put this whole thing to bed. (let's hope)
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
For example I use the acetone test table to choose which kavas to buy. Anything that is not tested noble I don't buy. I'm sure a lot of other people do the same. So it makes sense that if the non noble vendors start seeing a drop off in sales then they simply have to start selling noble kava in order to stay in business. I bet that in a few years time that table will be mostly yellow.
 

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
That's the goal, and if that happens it gives our kava community even more saftey from the FDA ... the fact that we can regulate and start guaranteeing saftey without they're help is a good thing.

The way @Kavasseur seems to like the kava world to be seems like a sure fire plan for the fda to GET INVOLVED ... since they control shit under the guise of saftey in the first place.
 

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Surely if we as consumers demand noble only and the testing highlights even reasonably well kavas that may not be completely noble then vendors and growers eventually have to realise that in order to have a thriving business they must only grow noble kavas for sale. It seems there are some people who don't care what kava they drink but I get the sense that a lot more people only want to drink noble kava based on the available evidence so far (whether good or bad evidence). If this continues then eventually we have to come to a situation where more noble kava is available for sale and less products are adulterated. The other side of this is that if a vendor wants to offer tudei kava labelled as such then that's fine too. In the long run consumer demand for noble only combined with adequate testing should put this whole thing to bed. (let's hope)
Right, because nothing has proved to be more efficient than the free market.
 

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
My feeling is that there is a discourse that was created when Europe began banning Kava products. Pacific Island nations didn't want to lose an overseas market, so they created a safety standards protocol and a narrative anchored in tradition to support it. For a long time, the narrative was actually the opposite, that PI nations shouldn't export Nobel!

I think you are assuming a problem rather than identifying a problem. Your testing system will always be arbitrary, and the biggest impact it might ever have is to raise the eyebrows of the FDA.


THIS ? I did.
Why did they reccomend not exporting noble ?
 

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
The way @Kavasseur seems to like the kava world to be seems like a sure fire plan for the fda to GET INVOLVED ... since they control shit under the guise of saftey in the first place.
How much do you actually know about the FDA? Salvia is still legal in the United States, did you know that? The danger with the FDA comes when they find something they can regulate. They certainly wouldn't want the public to regulate the safety of supplements.
 

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
The narrative was the opposite because of fears that the noble supply would be depleted by exporters, leaving the Islanders with nothing do drink. It was NOT because "two day is good", as you seem to imply.

Concerning the "discourse created in Europe", let's assume that you are correct. And you are to a small degree, but this is the route that the nations involved have chosen. Let's also assume that everyone here who has had good effects from noble and bad effects from two day is simply deluded. This still leaves you in the singular position of opposing all these players. Again, why? You can't possibly benefit the farmers (or anyone else) with this approach, what do you hope to accomplish?
I actually don't understand the second paragraph here. What are you asking me? My position is that testing Kava as Noble or Tudei should be informal, open access, and not assume any kind of authority. At this point, the labeling and sanctioning of Kava seems to imply that you are gunning for authority. Informal regulation is bound to cause problems. Before this, we bought Kavas based on the names and descriptions, and then were able to make recommendations based on experience. Now, we are using scientific tests. But these tests don't seem to translate to much in the actual experience of drinking Kava. This is my problem.
 

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Kava is listed as a dietary supplement by the FDA, and as such is expected to be self-regulated by the industry. You really do need to research!
I would prefer that you don't belittle me.

Additionally, that wasn't the point I was making. Just go ask the Ginko Biloba or coffee regulation boards.
 
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