Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

A Call for a Truth and Reconciliation Discussion on the Noble vs. Tudei Controversy

Bula Kava House

Bula Kava House

Portland, OR
Kava Vendor
Kava Bar Owner
Wow! You guys sure know how to ruffle each others' feathers! I only read the first and last page of comments so excuse me if I'm missing something.

I figured I'd jump in real quick. Bula Kava House has possibly the largest online retail kava presence in the world, definitely the largest of any active vendor on this site (though I know I'm much less active than I used to be). Despite our choice not to pursue TK certification our sales and popularity have grown exponentially. We have gotten to where we are because we sell good products at fair prices and take care of our customers. Garry's effort to promote noble kava and vendors helped me initially by convincing me that there may have been some kava adulteration happening. I was able to pressure my suppliers to ensure that all kava that is sent to me is pure. So though I agree with what much of @Kavasseur says about tudei's safety and the shaky case against it (Please don't cherry pick that sentence if you disagree. I get it. We don't all agree. It's like politics; I'm not convincing you and you're not convincing me), I don't agree that TK's inability or unwillingness to certify more vendors is putting people out of business. If a vendor does it right and sells quality products they may be able to succeed. We, for example, currently sell all noble kava. We have it tested to confirm its quality and purity because of an ethical duty to honestly label our products and keep customers safe from contaminants. Customers see that and feel comfortable in their purchases. I have no desire to be a TK Vendor because I don't 100% agree with the mission but that's not holding us back.

Some vendors have gone out of business recently and many more will soon. This has nothing to do with TK though. Kava is a limited resource and it's becoming very popular. The smaller vendors that popped up just because they "really love kava" and saw an opportunity to make a quick buck soon won't have the connections or the funding to purchase a diminishing resource with drastically increasing prices (One kava exporter I know recently raised prices nearly 150% per kg. Another cut off 9 of his 16 importers).

It's easy to come to this wonderful forum and see some of the more vocal members being so supportive of the whole "noble only" cause and the importance of being approved by Garry and assume that it is the collective thought of the entire kava world. In truth, it is more a case of the proverbial squeaky wheel. It's a bigger world than most people realize, including farmers, exporters, importers, researchers never discussed here, and tens of thousands of kava lovers. There isn't one entity or group with the power to control the knowledge or opinions of all, or even most.

Though I do believe that a certification organization that promotes certain vendors should have the capability to certify any business that meets its standards, obviously hiccups will happen when relying on a single person working out of his home for free. Of note, Garry offered to test any kava for me anytime but I've contacted him twice in the last six months or so to do so and never got a reply. I would like to see TK expand and be consistent with its services if Garry is set on continuing to endorse certain vendors.

Just my two cents. Happy arguing.

Bula!
 
Last edited:
Kalm with Kava

Kalm with Kava

Kava Vendor
Bula Kava House said:
Wow! You guys sure know how to ruffle each others' feathers! I only read the first and last page of comments so excuse me if I'm missing something.

I figured I'd jump in real quick. Bula Kava House has possibly the largest online retail kava presence in the world, definitely the largest of any active vendor on this site (though I know I'm much less active than I used to be). Despite our choice not to pursue TK certification our sales and popularity have grown exponentially. We have gotten to where we are because we sell good products at fair prices and take care of our customers. Garry's effort to promote noble kava and vendors helped me initially by convincing me that there may have been some kava adulteration happening. I was able to pressure my suppliers to ensure that all kava that is sent to me is pure. So though I agree with what much of @Kavasseur says about tudei's safety and the shaky case against it (Please don't cherry pick that sentence if you disagree. I get it. We don't all agree. It's like politics; I'm not convincing you and you're not convincing me), I don't agree that TK's inability or unwillingness to certify more vendors is putting people out of business. If a vendor does it right and sells quality products they may be able to succeed. We, for example, currently sell all noble kava. We have it tested to confirm its quality and purity because of an ethical duty to honestly label our products and keep customers safe from contaminants. Customers see that and feel comfortable in their purchases. I have no desire to be a TK Vendor because I don't 100% agree with the mission but that's not holding us back.

Some vendors have gone out of business recently and many more will soon. This has nothing to do with TK though. Kava is a limited resource and it's becoming very popular. The smaller vendors that popped up just because they "really love kava" and saw an opportunity to make a quick buck soon won't have the connections or the funding to purchase a diminishing resource with drastically increasing prices (One kava vendor I know recently raised prices nearly 150% per kg.).

It's easy to come to this wonderful forum and see some of the more vocal members being so supportive of the whole "noble only" cause and the importance of being approved by Garry and assume that it is the collective thought of the entire kava world. In truth, it is more a case of the proverbial squeaky wheel. It's a bigger world than most people realize, including farmers, exporters, importers, researchers never discussed here, and tens of thousands of kava lovers. There isn't one entity or group with the power to control the knowledge or opinions of all, or even most.

Though I do believe that a certification organization that promotes certain vendors should have the capability to certify any business that meets its standards, obviously hiccups will happen when relying on a single person working out of his home for free. Of note, Garry offered to test any kava for me anytime but I've contacted him twice in the last six months or so to do so, and never got a reply. I would like to see TK expand and be consistent with its services if Garry is set on continuing to endorse certain vendors.

Just my two cents. Happy arguing.

Bula!
Click to expand...
Wow, look at this we surfaced Deleted User and Judd! Good to see you buddy!
 
GussWest

GussWest

Kava Enthusiast
1. Fact: Flavokavain B is hepatotoxic. Fact: It is found at levels 400% higher in tudei than in noble kavas. This is the critical piece of data, to me.

2. Judd @Bula Kava House , did you really send a glitter-bomb to Garry?

3. WTF is the AKA @Tyler? They seem more "high and mighty" than Garry ever did.

I must say, for all the mud and monkeys, this has been an eye-opening convo for me. I've read up on the tudei controversy as fully as possible. I've made my decision.
 
Groggy

Groggy

Kava aficionado
Admin
GussWest said:
1. Fact: Flavokavain B is hepatotoxic. Fact: It is found at levels 400% higher in tudei than in noble kavas. This is the critical piece of data, to me.

2. Judd @Bula Kava House , did you really send a glitter-bomb to Garry?

3. WTF is the AKA @Tyler? They seem more "high and mighty" than Garry ever did.

I must say, for all the mud and monkeys, this has been an eye-opening convo for me. I've read up on the tudei controversy as fully as possible. I've made my decision.
Click to expand...
Hey? Are u making fun of me....j/k
 
Last edited:
HeadHodge

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity

See the glass tube on the left? That's what I would like people to see when doing an acetone test. Not a color chart.
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
Deleted User said:
@verticity : I believe you spoke of transparent color filters for comparison, here they are on a CIE chart along with a prototype comparator I made last year. In the hands of an impartial judge it's very accurate, but can't be considered "absolute". The filters are very consistent, and used in the film industry. It is a good tool for "eye training" on the colors involved, and for showing you what to avoid!
View attachment 6709 View attachment 6710
Click to expand...
@Deleted User Yup, that's what we were talking about. Do you have part numbers for those filters? And, right, that is perfect to have a range of saturations for the noble color. However, I wonder if there would also be a range of saturations for each level of adulteration, depending on which noble is adulterated?
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
@Deleted User also, I know you have been testing more tudei's in addition to Isa: Do different tudei's have a range of saturations like nobles do? Or are the saturations of tudei's all about the same?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top